How Erik Bergman's ardour for on-line playing changed into a public firm – Mixergy

How Erik Bergman's ardour for on-line playing changed into a public firm – Mixergy

Andrew: Hey there, freedom fighters. My identify is Andrew Warner. I’m the founding father of Mixergy the place I interview entrepreneurs about how they constructed their companies, and I do it for an viewers of entrepreneurs who, to be sincere, are going by stuff. We make it out to be such a straightforward factor—go construct an organization, change your life, make a number of cash. And the truth of it’s that you must eat loads of crap for lots of years. Even when issues are going properly, you actually undergo. And the issue with all people making it appear really easy is whenever you undergo . . . in actual fact, let me after I undergo, after I’m going by some challenges, I all the time really feel like possibly I’m doing one thing mistaken. And it’s very exhausting to get again on observe and say, “No, that is a part of the method.”

Such as you guys know, I run marathons. It’s very simple mile 18 to suppose, “This hurts. That is painful. Possibly I’m not meant to do that. Possibly in the present day’s not the proper day,” as a substitute of claiming, “Hey, wait, each different runner that I’ve ever met, once they’re working, they hit the wall. For them, it may be a special quantity. Possibly it’s 20 or 21. Possibly it’s 15 or 14 miles, no matter it’s. They hit it. That is simply me hitting the wall, and I received to bust by it.”

In order that’s the truth of entrepreneurship. And the very fact is that the majority entrepreneurs don’t discuss it. As a result of what’s the upside for it? Proper? I’ll inform you. It’s actually Erik, even for you, I’m going to inform you, it’s in your curiosity to lie. It’s in your curiosity to say, after all, I made it work as a result of I used to be an entrepreneur from start. It isn’t in your curiosity to speak concerning the challenges. It’s not in your curiosity to speak concerning the time that you simply’ve actually cried as a result of issues had been so robust.

However once we do this, we really get to vary somebody’s life. So we get to impregnate our ideas, our expertise of their brains. And once they undergo this, that’s when that problem that we simply introduced up, once they undergo their most troublesome factors, that’s when that little factor provides start and it makes them understand, Erik Bergman went by this. Andrew Warner talked about this one time. This different entrepreneur stated it. That is a part of the method. I’m right here residing the entrepreneurial dream, which really entails loads of loads of nightmares. All proper, I’ve talked lots right here. This isn’t about me. That is about Erik who simply laughed. Erik Bergman is an entrepreneur who’s coming to me instantly . . . The place are you in the present day?

Erik: I’m in Malta, which is that this teeny, tiny little nation within the Mediterranean that most individuals by no means heard about.

Andrew: Besides I’ve achieved a number of interviews now with entrepreneurs from there. Apparently the tax scenario there may be incredible. Is that why you there?

Erik: Effectively, it’s one of many causes that I stayed. I got here right here as a result of I wished to go on an journey 9 years in the past, and I received caught. I’ve been right here since 2010.

Andrew: By way of there Erik Bergman has created an outstanding firm known as Catena Media. What they do is that they do on-line lead era for plenty of totally different industries, largely for the playing trade, and the man took the corporate public.

After which he determined, what, it’s time for me to maneuver on. Why? I don’t know. We’ll discover out on this interview. And his subsequent factor is to create a web site and a enterprise known as I requested him what it was about. He informed me two issues. Primary, I can’t actually outline or describe it. It would take extra time. Simply go along with subsequent era charity challenge. And quantity two, he stated he’s going to donate all the cash that he makes from it. Which I stated, why? After which when he began to reply, I used to be impolite just like the New Yorker that I’m. And I stated, cling on, we’ll discuss it within the interview. So we’re going to speak about it, how did he begin this firm, the struggling that went together with it, how and why he left, after which what he’s as much as with this new challenge,

And the entire thing is sponsored to 2 very, very understanding sponsors, who will put up with my BS like this and never even, like not care. The primary will allow you to do electronic mail advertising and marketing proper. It’s known as ActiveCampaign. They hate that I say electronic mail advertising and marketing, however I believe it’s entry level to grasp what they do. And the second will host your web site proper. It’s known as HostGator. And once more, I’ll inform you about them later. Erik, good to see you right here.

Erik: Thanks. It’s good to be right here.

Andrew: This firm, it’s public on the Swedish inventory market. I noticed that the market cap is 3.58 billion Swedish krona. How a lot is that in U.S. {dollars}?

Erik: Roughly $400 million, give or take.

Andrew: 4 hundred million {dollars}. And also you personal what share of it now?

Erik: Roughly about 6% I maintain in the present day.

Andrew: Okay, so $24 million in worth. Did you money out somewhat bit?

Erik: Yeah. I cashed out. Greater than that . . .

Andrew: Are you able to say how a lot?

Erik: Kind of the identical quantity. A bit bit extra.

Andrew: Okay. All proper. And it’s secure, proper? Or have you ever invested in stuff and now it’s all gone away?

Erik: Quite a lot of it has gone away.

Andrew: Actually? To what? The place did it go?

Erik: Effectively, so the corporate is on the inventory change, which implies that it’s unstable in a way, and the final two years has been an entire curler coaster. So whenever you say that their valuation is about Four billion Swedish krona, it was 9 billion about eight months in the past. So I used to have much more, and I nonetheless have far more than I would like.

Andrew: However the quantity that you simply took out, you didn’t waste that. It’s nonetheless secure someplace?

Erik: Yeah, it’s in loads of totally different shares. In order that’s nonetheless there.

Andrew: Acquired it. After which by shares, you imply it’s invested in issues and there are ups and downs however you didn’t blow the cash on hookers and cocaine or something?

Erik: About half of it.

Andrew: Simply to be clear, you’re severe?

Erik: Yeah, after all.

Andrew: Oh, you’re severe about half of it you blew?

Erik: No.

Andrew: No. Okay, you’re kidding with me. All proper, good. I’m glad to see that you simply’re doing properly. I wish to perceive just like the enterprise and at any time when I’m going to Catena Media’s web site, I really feel like what I get is the enterprise model of the enterprise. I wish to know what particular web site. Give me an instance of a web site that you simply guys personal in order that I perceive how the enterprise operates.

Erik: So one of many web sites that we personal is

Andrew: All proper, I’m on the location proper now.

Erik: So this can be a on line casino web site. Give it some thought because the TripAdvisor of on line casino principally or playing, and one of many important options that we do on AskGamblers is that we act as sort of a choose or one thing, and we assist on line casino gamers who’re in disputes with casinos. So let’s say you’re taking part in at a on line casino web site, they usually promised you this, this and that. And then you definately didn’t get these issues for no matter cause that may have been. Then you possibly can come to AskGamblers, and you may ship in your proof like, “Hey, they promised me this, this and that.” And we’ll take a look at these print screens and no matter phrases and situations you could have agreed to. After which we’ll, if we predict that you’re proper, which occurs numerous the time, we’ll deliver this up with the operator, like on line casino, and say, “Hey, you didn’t give him this or that. Please ship us your proof for this.” After which they ship their proof. And relying on what we predict is the proper or mistaken resolution, we give the on line casino a suggestion of what they need to do. And more often than not they comply with our suggestion and pay out the participant that method.

Andrew: Okay. And there’s additionally a weblog the place you’re giving individuals information on what’s happening within the playing trade, the net playing trade. I may also hyperlink over to totally different casinos. Effectively, I might if I wasn’t within the U.S., the place the buttons are grayed out and it says restricted, proper?

Erik: Sure.

Andrew: Okay. All proper. That provides me sense of the way you’re working. Let’s return in time, as a result of I really feel like, I really feel such as you’re one of many few entrepreneurs the place I get a way of the place your entrepreneurial like gusto got here from. Honest to say, your mother and father weren’t entrepreneurial, however you personally had been?

Erik: Yeah, I believe that spirit . . . I believe I used to be born with it in a way, or I believe I inherited from my brother. I believe he was born with it.

Andrew: So what do you imply? What did your brother do?

Erik: Effectively, the primary entrepreneurial large, large challenge that we did collectively, I used to be in all probability 4 years previous, possibly 5 and we had been . . . So in Sweden in the event you deliver a soda can again to the shop, you get 5 cents. And clearly that is a tremendous enterprise alternative for any five-year-old on the market with a plastic bag and the data about rubbish cans. So me and my brother we raided all the rubbish cans we might discover in all places round my hometown. We went alongside the seashores. We went to the soccer video games. After which we stuffed up our little, we had this little home in our backyard that was purported to be for toys and stuff, however we stuffed it up with soda cans and beer cans everywhere in the summer season. After which we introduced it again to the shop by the top of the summer season. And we received again roughly $200, in order that was 1000’s. In order the intelligent five-year-old that was, I invested it in shares, and no, I purchased ice cream and sweet.

Andrew: I used to be going to say as a result of your mother and father don’t strike me as people who find themselves going to love open you as much as the inventory market. What did your mother and father do for a residing?

Erik: In order that they’re very common individuals. My father, after I was rising up, he was in an trade employee constructing water heaters. And my mom is a physiotherapist.

Andrew: And one of many causes you wished to be an entrepreneur was they weren’t actually making that a lot cash, however inform me concerning the individuals round you whenever you had been rising up.

Erik: Okay, so after I was, and let’s again off somewhat bit. So after I was like 7 to 12 years previous, I used to be a really lonely child. I didn’t have many pals in any respect in class, and never elsewhere both. However then I turned 13, and my household moved. So I began in a brand new college, the place this was the wealthy and fancy college of my hometown. And we, not at all wealthy and fancy. We had been residing in a small home outdoors of the town. And however this was the place this college buses would take me. So I began on this college and by some miracle I managed to get loads of pals very early on. And as an individual who by no means had pals earlier than, I desperately wished to do every thing to slot in, which is de facto exhausting in the event you’re not a wealthy child going to a wealthy college. As someday right here as 13 12 months previous, cash turned a really large . . . It turned crucial to me. It felt like that was my sort of entry ticket to becoming in, and that was exhausting.

Andrew: And so what did you do to attempt to like slot in?

Erik: Effectively, at the start, I assume I bugged my mother and father lots to have the ability to purchase no matter I wanted. I additionally offered tons and plenty of lottery tickets. So me and my as soon as once more my brother, he offered lottery tickets. And in Sweden there was this present known as Bingo Lotto which is a bingo lottery present on TV and we . . . in the event you offered these tickets for a sports activities membership, you would earn some cash. So by the point now we earned about 50 cents per ticket, so 10 occasions greater than a soda can. And we offered these tickets on the Saturday market the place all of the previous individuals got here to purchase fruits and stuff. So me and my brother had been too cute boys standing there and flirting with the [Agagda 00:11:23] eight years previous and having her purchase our bingo tickets, in order that’s how we made cash.

Andrew: what? One of many dopiest issues that I did was I bear in mind going to a good friend’s birthday celebration. My dad, I believe, favored Cadillacs. And so he received a Cadillac. And I bear in mind saying . . . and I didn’t even like Cadillacs. What child likes a Cadillac? I stated to my mother, whenever you choose me up from the birthday celebration, are available in that Cadillac. What? After which I used to be too embarrassed to inform her why or what, however did you ever do silly issues like that?

Erik: No Cadillac story. I imply, what I did was after I received a bit older, so I received 18 I began taking part in poker, and all of the sudden I began making some huge cash from poker . . .

Andrew: Poker on-line.

Erik: Yeah, poker on-line, I received actually good at it. And as have been the sort of poor child for the previous 5 years and desperately attempting to slot in and by no means feeling that I used to be sufficient, all the time that feeling of feeling a bit like a lie, understanding that, certain, I may need been in a position to purchase some garments for myself, however we had been nonetheless driving round in previous Opel when the opposite youngsters had BMWs. And residing in a small little home on the countryside when the opposite aspect large fancy homes in the perfect neighborhoods. After which all of the sudden, as an 18-year-old I began making $4,00Zero or $5,000, even $10,00Zero a month taking part in on-line poker. And whereas I wasted all of it on champagne and dearer garments, I received a automotive. Couldn’t afford that one, received an residence, received an enormous flashy TV and all of these issues, I spent principally all the cash on issues that could possibly be seen simply to strive to slot in in that is the world that was residing in.

Andrew: That is you Erik, the child whose mother and father didn’t make as a lot cash as his pals’ mother and father, who needed to go to highschool on a college bus the place everybody else was I assume being pushed in saying, I lastly get to indicate you that I’m worthy, I’m considered one of you and even higher as a substitute of feeling lesser. This was you carrying your insecurities in your sleeve?

Erik: Yeah, this I believe worthy is the important thing phrase right here. Like on a regular basis I felt I’m not ok. I’m not becoming in. I’m attempting my easiest to perform this. And I imply, I believe there have been all the time like, properly, all the time, generally jokes like, okay, however Erik, go house to your previous little shitty home or . . .

Andrew: Folks stated that to you?

Erik: Yeah, after all, I imply youngsters. I imply feedback like that that they simply hit within the abdomen or hit me within the abdomen, and have become the meals for this like consideration monster in my chest. I simply received’t transfer myself. So I believe that’s the place it got here from them that after I lastly had the cash, I simply wished everybody to know that.

Andrew: Did you get so far earlier than this? If you had been going by that insecure interval earlier than you began earning profits from playing, did you get so far? Did you could have a girlfriend?

Erik: Sure, I used to be really surprisingly good with ladies all my life.

Andrew: Okay. What was your factor? I really feel such as you’re an excellent trying man. Such as you’re sporting a regular white shirt, that each time I attempt to pull off only a white shirt like that, it appears to be like like I’m a dork from like, I don’t know the legislation agency that employed me because it late time period intern. You’re pulling it off. Is it that you simply had been all the time good trying?

Erik: So in the event you go very, very a lot again in time, so let’s be part of Erik three years previous, or 4 years previous or one thing like that, my most of my earliest recollections comes with a lady or some sort of sexual scenario.

Andrew: Actually?

Erik: Yeah, so my very first recollections are about ladies or perhaps a boy in some sort of sexual scenario, however let’s not go there.

Andrew: Why, why, why? You’re saying even from, even at a younger age, you felt such as you felt some attraction to boys too?

Erik: No, I don’t suppose this was about attraction. It was in all probability extra about curiosity generally. I imply, now I’m 4 years previous or one thing like that in kindergarten constructing home of pillows sort of touching one another for see what that’s. So already again there. After which I’m the seven years previous and I informed you I used to be this lonely child, however even then I used to be surprisingly good with ladies, or all my pals, the buddies that I had had been feminine, or girls. Effectively, I don’t suppose you possibly can say girls whenever you’re seven. In order that turned sort of my method of validating myself got here from ladies already then. And the individuals I had round me after I was 13 and I wished to have cash to impress individuals. The one individual that was closest to me and really didn’t see me for cash was this woman named [Louise 00:16:29], who I used to be sort of relationship on and off for six years, and he or she was really like me in a way that she didn’t come from cash or something.

Andrew: Additionally the outsider, additionally feeling like she didn’t slot in and the 2 of you slot in collectively.

Erik: I don’t suppose she apprehensive as a lot as I did. So I believe that she felt that she match it. It was simply me who was, had these ideas. However yeah. So we, yeah, we had a really shut reference to all of that. So it got here from this and it’s been lengthy . . . been like that on a regular basis.

Andrew: You and a longtime good friend of yours’ Emil Thidell? Am I announcing his identify proper?

Erik: It’s ok.

Andrew: How do you say it?

Erik: Thidell.

Andrew: Thidell.

Erik: Yeah.

Andrew: Emil.

Erik: You may skip the H.

Andrew: Emil Thidell. You began an internet consulting company. What was your imaginative and prescient for this? That is like quickly after you had been doing all of your entire affiliate, your poker stuff, proper?

Erik: It was roughly concurrently I used to be doing the poker stuff.

Andrew: So the poker stuff began out as you playing and doing properly, after which sooner or later turned you selling the net playing websites that you simply had been part of, proper?

Erik: Yeah, so the poker began with me being 16 years previous having poker on my calculator in class. After which once we began taking part in, the blokes within the class began taking part in collectively in any respect the principally every thing between all lessons and in all math, Swedish and physics lessons the place we’ve academics who didn’t actually concentrate. And from that, that turned out very properly. Like I saved, I did the advertising and marketing on the aspect of that for poker just about on a regular basis in addition to beginning after I was 18 or so.

Andrew: Okay, and the way did you . . . What sort of advertising and marketing did you do? How did you get clients? How did you get individuals to go and play?

Erik: Okay, in order an expert poker participant, you pay someplace between $2000 and $10,00Zero a month in numerous charges. So it’s actually, actually costly to play that a lot poker. And that’s known as the rake. And when you have a particular cope with it, with the location you’re taking part in on, you may get your rake again and it’s known as rake again.

Andrew: So the way in which it really works is, if I’m taking part in, if all of us are taking part in collectively, the home will take cash from the pot on occasion, proper. That’s the rake.

Erik: Sure, that’s right.

Andrew: And so that you’re saying some individuals get the rake again after they’re achieved playing?

Erik: Sure, a minimum of elements of it.

Andrew: How?

Erik: So in the event you say in the event you play lots, you’ll pay someplace between $2000 and $10,00Zero in rake. And in the event you’re an expert participant, then it’s crucial to get elements of that again. And that the on line casino clearly desires you as a participant since you’re an enormous participant. So you possibly can then get 50% of this again. So I received a deal like that for myself. After which I began selling these sort of offers for individuals I knew and that I met in boards and tournaments and stuff like that. So in the event you had been one other participant, I might prepare so you bought 50% again. After which I took a 5% reduce on that.

Andrew: Acquired it. The net on line casino would provide you with 5% of what they had been taking part in, what they had been getting.

Erik: Sure.

Andrew: Okay, received it. And so this was how you bought began with these things. Attention-grabbing. All proper. After which what occurred subsequent? Stroll me by this.

Erik: Yeah, so we began this little internet company, however that utterly failed fairly rapidly. The concept with that was to construct quite simple web sites to love hairdressers, widget, or printer outlets on the shoe retailer in my native hometown. Sure, horrible to try to do enterprise with small firms, a minimum of doing internet.

So we utterly failed doing that. So we realized that, let’s see if we will construct web sites for ourselves as a substitute. So we did that and began selling bingo really, which was a sister challenge of the poker web site I used to be taking part in for. So that they had a bingo web site known as And we began selling them and evaluating their bonuses and their provides with others, after which sending gamers to these, to Maria Bingo right into a bunch of different websites and we received a fee there as properly. I’m on Maria Bingo proper now. It’s nonetheless going, received it.

Erik: Yeah, that’s big.

Andrew: So you possibly can play on-line. Okay. How did how did you and Erik meet one another?

Erik: Me and Emil.

Andrew: Excuse me, Erik.

Erik: Sure, enjoyable truth.

Andrew: Emil.

Erik: We’re born on the identical day, in the identical hospital, by mother and father who knew one another. So we’re actually identified one another for so long as bodily potential.

Andrew: Wow. And rising up, was he additionally entrepreneurial such as you? No.

Erik: No, he’s nonetheless isn’t . . . He is a superb . . .

Andrew: What was he like rising up?

Erik: The stereotypical laptop geek. When he was eight years previous, he had constructed his first calculator.

Andrew: Wow, wee. Okay. All proper, I get a way of who he’s. Let me discuss my first sponsor, then we’ll proceed with the story. My first sponsor is ActiveCampaign. Erik, are you aware them in any respect?

Erik: Under no circumstances.

Andrew: Okay, nice. I’m going to blow your thoughts right here. What did you guys use for electronic mail advertising and marketing at your organization? Even when it’s a competitor to my sponsors, it’s okay.

Erik: We’ve been utilizing MailChimp and AWeber primarily.

Andrew: Oh my god, AWeber. I don’t wish to rag on them. However right here’s the issue with these . . . Let’s simply mix all of the totally different electronic mail firms and name them simplistic. The issue with them is you simply get one large checklist. And if you wish to like separate your clients from non-customers, you create an entire different checklist for essentially the most half. What you in all probability skilled, Erik, is you could have individuals who would come to totally different websites of yours. And possibly someone who’s doing bingo playing is totally different from somebody who’s doing poker, however they don’t fill out a kind and say, “Hey, I’m into bingo, or I’m into poker.” You guys did each, proper?

Erik: Yeah.

Andrew: They’re not filling out a kind and saying that, however they’re web sites which can be for bingo. They’re web sites which can be for poker or no matter else they’re all in favour of. And in the event you had ActiveCampaign, what you’d be capable to do is simply tag them based mostly on that, after which comply with up with them based mostly on what they had been on. So in the event that they had been possibly going into bingo, bingo, bingo, bingo, despite the fact that they’re a poker participant, you may tag them like that. After which ship them an electronic mail saying, “Hey, loads of poker gamers are discovering bingo is an effective option to unwind. We even have this deal the place you possibly can go and take a look at bingo.” Growth, now you’ve spoken to them based mostly on what they’ve achieved, not who they are saying they’re, and transitioned them in direction of one thing that is sensible for you and for them. That’s the fantastic thing about ActiveCampaign.

Now Erik, I’m going to be sincere with you. A number of totally different software program can do that. Wait, I see you’re smiling and I’ve received to love acknowledge it. Does it appear somewhat too foolish? Are you feeling like possibly this isn’t your mannequin? Be open with me. I’m okay with you even ragging on the sponsor in the event you’re open.

Erik: Effectively, I imply, I’ve all the time hated AWeber. I all the time been too lazy to vary.

Andrew: what, it took me so lengthy to depart it. And it’s such a ache within the neck. All proper, I’m with you. Good. I believed possibly you’re smiling is like, Andrew, that is ridiculous. Yeah, it’s . . . I completely hear you. I’m not going to rag on them right here. However I’ll rag on loads of different . . . I’m going to rag on the group of those websites that simply gotten lazy, as a result of individuals signed up they usually’re caught with these emails advertising and marketing software program, or they signed up they usually don’t know the way to transition away, however they know that there’s one thing higher.

Anyway, ActiveCampaign does all that. I’m not going to fake that there’s no different software program that does it. There are larger finish software program that does all this. Any person watches a video during, you possibly can tag them. Any person clicks on an internet site, you possibly can tag them. Any person clicks inside an electronic mail, you possibly can tag them. After which you possibly can comply with up by way of electronic mail.

The rationale they hate me, by the way in which, Erik, calling it electronic mail advertising and marketing and the founder after I interviewed him particularly saved telling me, don’t name us electronic mail advertising and marketing. Nevertheless it’s too sophisticated to say it does electronic mail and textual content messages and sure, in the event you’re into chatbots, they’ll join right into a chat. It’s simply to fricking messy. I’ll say its electronic mail advertising and marketing, however you would do the remaining.

The rationale that they’re higher than the rivals is they really they’ve all these options they usually’re simple sufficient so that you can use. All proper, so in the event you’re like Erik and also you’re caught with considered one of these . . . properly, that’s Erik earlier firm. Erik’s not on the firm now full time. However in the event you’re an organization that’s caught with these old-fashioned electronic mail advertising and marketing firms, you don’t know the way to go away, ActiveCampaign has received a particular provide the place they’ll transfer you away from the dopey overly simplistic electronic mail software program that you simply hate to maneuver. They may migrate you free of charge in the event you use my URL,

And by the way in which, they’ll allow you to strive it free of charge. And in the event you enroll, they’ll provide you with a second month free. And by the way in which, since they’ve all these options, and possibly you don’t know the way to implement, they’re going to provide you two free one-on-one periods with their individuals. First session, you’ll be taught what you are able to do. You get actually sensible, you go take motion. Second session, you test in—what labored, what didn’t work, the place are you caught—after which they’ll allow you to out too., I problem anyone to indicate me a greater electronic mail advertising and marketing firm. I problem you guys, actually.

Erik: And I’ll problem them with yet another factor. Please, please, please attempt to put an electronic mail amassing popup in your web site and measure the outcomes of it.

Andrew: Actually? Why?

Erik: Sure, as a result of it might probably do superb issues. It appears to be like like shit. Folks consider that it’ll create worse conversions and that may enhance . . . properly, get bounce fee by the roof. It doesn’t a minimum of in my expertise. We’ve received insanely good outcomes with it, despite the fact that it’s a really old-fashioned tactic. And once we did it the primary time, which is a pair years in the past, it boosted our revenues with like 15%, 20% simply from having popup like that and beginning with electronic mail funnel after that.

Andrew: Wow.

Erik: So please try to really see. It won’t work, however strive.

Andrew: I’ve been apprehensive about that, about placing that sort of popup on my web site. I wait until individuals take motion by clicking after which sure issues will set off it. All proper, I’m all for attempting it. After which your electronic mail funnel, who created that for you? You guys did it in-house?

Erik: Yeah, I constructed it really.

Andrew: You wrote all of it out?

Erik: Yeah, let’s return a bit.

Andrew: Okay, so that you and your good friend determine, what, this consulting company failed. We’re going after the mistaken group of individuals. We talked about bingo. Talking of bingo, how did that consider?

Erik: Bingo or what?

Andrew: I believed bingo was possibly the primary set of websites that you simply guys determined to construct.

Erik: Yeah, so bingo was the very first thing that really turned one thing. We tried every kind of issues. And it took, so we constructed this bingo web site, and we labored actually exhausting on it for like three months.

Andrew: What was it known as?

Erik: Effectively, the very first one is named

Andrew: Lunar bingo, okay.

Erik: You will discover it within the archive. We don’t even personal the area anymore. I believe there’s one thing there.

Andrew: Yeah, you’re proper. It’s gone. Okay, so yeah, inform me about Luna.

Erik: Lunar Bingo.

Andrew: Lunar, okay. Yeah, Lunar Bingo.

Erik: That’s it. So this was our first web site. And we labored actually exhausting on it for like three months. And we made an enormous fats zero in revenues on this time. So we put these tasks apart and went on and tried every kind of different issues. And we made . . .

Andrew: Why didn’t Lunar not do properly?

Erik: Effectively, I don’t know to be . . . Effectively, I do know. We didn’t know shit of what we had been doing. We tried to repeat different individuals’s concepts. We didn’t understand how search engine optimisation labored. We didn’t know advertising and marketing. Principally, we didn’t know something. And we didn’t actually strive exhausting sufficient to developing with new issues. As a substitute, we moved on and we tried loads of different issues. And we made [year-end 00:27:37] revenues in 4 different tasks.

After which a 12 months later, we got here again to truly checking these bingo accounts and this affiliate factor that we arrange, and we had made about 1000 bucks with out even understanding it. So like, hey, wow, this may be one thing.

Andrew: Which means all of the websites that you simply constructed however deserted as a result of they weren’t doing properly, had been beginning to trickle in somewhat bit of cash whenever you weren’t paying consideration. And then you definately realized, hey, that is really all including up.

Erik: Sure, precisely. Solely the bingo web site was the one producing essentially the most cash really. So we felt like hey, bingo is the factor. So after that that is now 2008, yeah 2008. So we began doing a a number of totally different bingo websites and 2009 we received from 1,00Zero Euros a 12 months to 1000 Euros a month, one thing like that. In 2010 we determined to let’s give this a strive. Let’s transfer to Malta and focus full time on this after which I . . .

Andrew: Why Malta?

Erik: It was really the one place I knew anybody who lived right here.

Andrew: You [mean 00:28:29] keep at house?

Erik: We thought that we couldn’t. So in Sweden there’s a playing monopoly. And since we had been doing advertising and marketing for playing, we thought we had been breaking the legislation. Apparently we weren’t as a result of we didn’t really function the video games, however 22 12 months previous me didn’t perceive that. So I [left 00:28:55] my nation, however I used to be mistaken. Nonetheless, I’m comfortable I left. I had loads of good occasions over right here.

Andrew: What was Malta like whenever you received there? What was so enjoyable about it?

Erik: So a few . . . I imply, there’s loads of sunshine, which is an apparent win. It’s very, very small, which implies that it’s strolling distance to every thing. It’s an enormous expat group. So there are individuals from in all places doing every kind of humorous enterprise, loads of tech individuals. It’s sort of like a mini Silicon Valley for Europeans.

Andrew: If you say humorous issues, what do you imply?

Erik: It may be something from large banks and stuff that they took on-line to bizarre porn tasks which can be simply attention-grabbing to speak to individuals behind them, and every thing in between. So it’s an enormous hub for playing firms, however it’s additionally an enormous hub for small web entrepreneurs in every kind of industries.

Andrew: Okay, wow, that’s fascinating to me. I’d love to return there and do a set of interviews. And by the way in which, the rationale that I wanted somewhat further time once we’re beginning is I received this mic setup on me after which this recorder. I wish to begin doing in-person interviews with individuals and be capable to do it by myself with the best rig potential. And that is the mic, that is the digital camera that it was speaking about. It’s known as the Zoom H4n Professional. I went with the easy one. And I’ve received a mic on me to check out. And I’m going to check it with a good friend, Hiten Shah, who’s coming in right here to do an interview with me in individual. Think about if I went to Malta and interviewed 5 of your pals who’re in just like the wackiest companies and revealed that on this Mixergy? That will kill.

Erik: You undoubtedly ought to.

Andrew: You suppose they’d be keen to do interviews with me if I come and frolicked with them?

Erik: I imply you’re such a pleasant man, who wouldn’t?

Andrew: Most individuals, consider it or not, they don’t wish to particularly in the event that they’re doing humorous enterprise stuff. They don’t wish to discuss it with me.

Erik: Yeah, I’ve a few very secretive pals really who do very bizarre stuff.

Andrew: You suppose they’d be keen to do it if I gave them anonymity?

Erik: A few of them would, a few of them wouldn’t. I’ve a few very secretive pals and I’ve a few very unsecretive pals. In order that’s the factor right here, just about everybody I hang around with run their very own firms a technique or one other.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s what I’m seeing that loads of actually attention-grabbing issues occurring there. I wouldn’t even say Silicon Valley. Silicon Valley could be very very similar to open and futuristic. This is a bit more closed and action-results oriented is what I’m sensing from the entrepreneurs I’ve met in Malta, proper?

Erik: Yeah, yeah, there are many like small associates or individuals who love the 4 hour workweek principally tried to embody that. They’re right here.

Andrew: Okay. You began getting some actual clients. You began to . . . I imply, at this level, it was simply you constructing websites and the affiliate applications are the way you’re earning profits. When you found that constructing a number of websites might work and that possibly bingo was the factor, what did you do subsequent?

Erik: Okay, We’re now in 2011. Once we got here to Malta, our plan was really to get jobs so we might do that as a aspect factor. I utilized for one job, didn’t get it. Emil was too lazy to even apply for any jobs so he didn’t get it. So we principally stated, “Okay, let’s dwell on the naked minimal we will presumably do.” So we turned off the heater to the bathe each time we had showered to avoid wasting electrical energy. That’s the price range we had been on. And we simply centered on the enterprise. And 2011 turned actually good. We began doing these sort of affiliate web sites for something we might provide you with. So we did it for bingo to start out with, and we did it for insurance coverage, insurances, mortgages, enterprise playing cards, motels, principally every thing that we might think about.

Andrew: However Erik, how did you . . . bless you. How did you get individuals to return to those websites? What was your factor? Was it search engine optimisation? Was it one thing else?

Erik: Yeah, so we received good at search engine optimisation, and what we discovered early on. So that is early search engine optimisation days, so considerably early search engine optimisation days, what the worth of hyperlink exchanges, which was an enormous factor then combining that with . . . scaling that with shopping for a number of small websites. So we purchased loads of small websites, and we put the hyperlinks within the weblog rolls. So , on the menu bar, we had the system that might simply inject hyperlinks there to anybody. Okay, we had a whole lot of internet sites. So we did hyperlink exchanges with just about everybody. And we all the time did . . . we all the time took the shorter straw in each hyperlink change, and we did this totally knowingly so that everybody would do the commerce in a short time with us. So we didn’t should trouble and negotiate.

Andrew: What’s the shorter straw when it got here to hyperlink exchanges?

Erik: Yeah, so often whenever you’re , in the event you’re . . . if we’re buying and selling hyperlinks collectively, you’re often some metrics like, how beneficial is your web site, how beneficial is my web site. And we all the time made certain that we gave away extra worth than we received, so both they received extra hyperlinks in numbers or they received extra highly effective hyperlinks than we received it.

Andrew: Acquired it.

Erik: In return then we did so many extra of those as a result of we didn’t find yourself negotiating or hassling from back and front so many occasions. We simply scaled it. So this technique labored then throughout just about any trade we wished to strive.

Andrew: Okay. And so then you definately had been doing properly. At what level did you determine to go public?

Erik: Okay, so in 2012, we began to make good cash with numerous issues. I believe we made roughly $40,00Zero a month in income, one thing like that.

Andrew: Actually? Simply from all these totally different websites that did nothing however hyperlink change search engine optimisation after which funnel site visitors out. You weren’t doing . . . had been you doing running a blog? Had been you doing communities or something on-line?

Erik: No, no, we had very crappy merchandise however we had been good at search engine optimisation and good at electronic mail advertising and marketing. So we did search engine optimisation and electronic mail advertising and marketing.

Andrew: E mail advertising and marketing. So that you had been good at doing these popups that will gather individuals’s electronic mail addresses and do a funnel that will ship individuals to an affiliate and maintain observe of the clicks and maintain enhancing it?

Erik: Sure.

Andrew: Wow. Okay.

Erik: That’s just about all we did.

Andrew: All proper, let me cease for a second. As a man who grew up feeling insecure about your home in your friendship circle, feeling such as you didn’t manage to pay for. Lastly getting somewhat little bit of a pop with poker and beginning to exhibit by shopping for vehicles and champagne and so forth. Now you’re doing 40 a month on this a part of the story, what do you do? How does it have an effect on you?

Erik: Okay, so we’re lacking an necessary piece in that puzzle. And that’s what occurred after I stopped successful at poker. So I’m 19 years previous and I constructed up an id round I’ve cash, every thing I’m is cash. That’s what I’m by far essentially the most happy with and I’m not happy with saying that in the present day, however trying again that was my id and what I cared essentially the most about. After which I ended successful. So I didn’t begin shedding, which was a blessing, however I ended successful and I had a way of life that was actually costly.

And in just some months, I couldn’t afford something anymore. I had burned all my cash. I couldn’t maintain the residence. I might barely maintain the [car 00:36:25], and I needed to transfer again to my mother and father’ home. So after I was graduating from highschool or regardless of the phrase for is after I was 19 and planning for my life to change into this large occasion, I used to be all of the sudden useless broke and I utterly failed this, despite the fact that have had all these cash, I burnt it on crap. In order that’s the draw back of the poker half.

Andrew: So then how did you deal with that?

Erik: Effectively, I received devastated and didn’t actually wish to speak to anybody for some time. Then I began . . . I utilized for a job. I didn’t get the job. I attempted another issues to earn cash, didn’t get, then actually managed to. And that’s once we began the enterprise. In order that turned sort of the downswing and the way in which out of it.

Andrew: And that’s why you stated, I’m going to go to Malta and begin over. Did you get depressed at that interval?

Erik: Not badly. I’ve been . . . it’s been method worse throughout the begin. Effectively, throughout the Catena story, that’s been method worse.

Andrew: If you say not badly, what was your melancholy like on the time?

Erik: So that is 19 12 months previous me and unsure if depressed is the proper phrase. However I used to be undoubtedly in a nasty place, feeling that I utterly failed, every thing that I used to be. And since I had made cash to my id, and all of the sudden I had felt worthy of no matter that may have been, now that id was gone. And I recognized myself value with having cash, with couldn’t afford this stuff, with shopping for . . .

Andrew: Now all of the sudden you haven’t any self-worth.

Erik: Precisely. No matter I tied myself value to was now gone.

Andrew: Okay.

Erik: Yeah, that was not time.

Andrew: All proper.

Erik: With this in thoughts, now after I began making 40okay a month, I really didn’t care that a lot about cash anymore. I had already received that recreation in a way that I had much more than any considered one of my pals had. And it wasn’t necessary to show it in that method. That’s additionally one of many lovely issues about Malta was that everybody ran their firms, however nobody actually confirmed off. So again in, after I was residing in Sweden, and everybody had costly garments and costly watches and whatnot. Right here you would meet tremendous millionaire and he’s nonetheless is sporting flip-flops and shorts, and you may’t inform him them other than a buyer help agent. So it’s a really totally different vibe, and nobody cares about your tackle. Nobody is driving a automotive. It’s a really informal place the place everybody hangs out with everybody.

Andrew: Okay, all proper. And so that you sort of broke by that problem internally since you made it and also you misplaced it. And then you definately had been beginning to flip issues round, so that you didn’t go loopy. I wish to learn about why you went public. However let me take a second to speak about my second sponsor, after which we’ll proceed.

My second sponsor is a internet hosting firm known as HostGator. Anybody who was listening to Erik discuss all of the totally different websites that he beginning ought to perceive that it’s really pretty simple to launch new websites with model new domains. In case you go to and also you see that they’ve three totally different choices. The most affordable one is like $2.64 a month. I like to recommend you don’t go for that. However as a substitute you go for the following degree up which is $3.98 a month is seemingly what it begins at.

Principally all these things is insignificant, however what I would like you to do is choose that center possibility a minimum of as a result of that’s going to provide you limitless domains. And the good thing about having limitless area internet hosting is each time you purchase a site for like $9 . . . To procure yours one for 900,000. We’ll discuss that. However you may get a site for 9 bucks or much less, then have it hosted on HostGator and throw one other and one other and one other and one other. And it’s very easy to try this to experiment with totally different concepts.

One of many individuals who is listening to me is a man who determined, what, I’m sort of on this entire Cuba factor. I believe that there’s lots happening in Cuba. I hear Andrew discuss Cuba. I’m going to create an internet site. And so he simply went to HostGator,, which provides you a brilliant low fee. And he stated, I’m going to simply set up WordPress and create a web site known as Why Not Cuba?

And I’ve been pondering, Erik, about going to Cuba this 12 months with my spouse and youngsters, and I noticed his web site and I believe we’re going to go along with him and sort of hang around whereas he’s there. God is aware of as soon as I talked to my spouse about it, she’s so fired up. All she desires to do is ask about when are we going to Cuba. As Individuals, we will’t get there. So in the event you’re on the market and you’ve got an concept, deliver it to HostGator. Whether or not it’s one web site or a number of websites, they’ll make it simple so that you can host and rehost and rehost and rehost, Consider that alligator. Tremendous low fee, get tagged as a Mixergy buyer, assist me out and assist your self out with an incredible web site.

Why did you determine to go public? Often firms don’t go public till they’re a lot greater and additional alongside.

Erik: Effectively, relies upon somewhat bit how we wish to inform this story. How a lot time do we’ve?

Andrew: As a lot as you want? I received nothing else. In reality, when Hiten comes. he’ll hang around right here with us. I’ll give him a scotch.

Erik: Okay, then we’ll do an extended model of this story. So we’re nonetheless at 2011 and 2012, we took on VC firm. And the rationale for that was merely that, okay, we earn cash proper now, however we really feel like we’re solely fucking round. We do not know what we’re doing. Nobody understands what we’re doing. And I couldn’t actually clarify it to my mother and father or anybody else. So the rationale, we wished to construct one thing large. We wished to show into an actual firm. And that’s once we began doing on line casino. In order that’s precisely when it turned an organization. Till then we’ve one worker . . .

Andrew: What do you imply you began doing on line casino?

Erik: So again on, earlier than then, we did every kind of various issues. And October 2012, we gave just about all the eye to on line casino. We hadn’t achieved that earlier than. So we began doing on line casino in 2012, and that’s when Catena really began. So Catena then went to the inventory change in February 2016. In order that’s three and a half years later after we began it.

Andrew: So it doesn’t sound just like the lengthy story. Now, that’s fairly quick. What you’re saying is you began to zero in on this one space, neglect about insurance coverage associates and all this different stuff. Casinos, on-line on line casino associates, proper? Not creating your personal on line casino?

Erik: Sure, right.

Andrew: You hesitated.

Erik: I’ve achieved loads of casinos as properly. That’s why I hesitated.

Andrew: I believed so.

Erik: And we really began loads of loads of . . . Yeah, we began loads of casinos as properly. However that’s a smaller story and a sidetrack. So yeah.

Andrew: Okay, so that you began doing your personal on line casino, your personal affiliate stuff, you began focusing, you wanted to boost cash. And when you raised cash, they’re searching for an exit. And so when you began elevating cash, that pushed you in direction of the exit, in direction of the IPO?

Erik: We really didn’t increase any cash in any respect. So we offered half of the corporate to a VC firm to do and . . . properly, to not a VC firm. So these had been three entrepreneurs who had constructed and offered a bunch of various biggish firms within the on line casino house. They usually had been gods in my world when it comes to what that they had achieved, however primarily due to how folks that I knew who had labored for them spoke about them.

Andrew: Who’re these guys?

Erik: In order that they’re known as Optimizer Make investments, Henrik Persson, André Lavold, and Mikael Harstad. There’s two Swedish guys and a Norwegian. They usually’ve based firms.

Andrew: Okay, Optimizer Make investments, we make good companies nice. That’s I believe there additionally in Malta.

Erik: Sure. So we offered half of the corporate to them in October 2012. They usually simply . . .

Andrew: And the distinction between elevating cash and promoting half is you get to maintain the cash once they make investments half?

Erik: Sure.

Andrew: Acquired it, so you bought to money out somewhat bit. They got here in, they added experience and what?

Erik: Effectively, they added primarily two issues I’d say, being position fashions. So we had somebody that we actually wished to impress, they usually added method, method greater desires than we ever had. That was the 2 like important issues that got here with that. So we began working in direction of their desires which properly, their objectives which was to construct this on line casino empire, and we actually wished to impress them. So we labored lots more durable than we had achieved earlier than. We began hiring lots of people. As a result of earlier than, we didn’t wish to take that large step out of our consolation zone, so we didn’t have any staff actually. And now we went from having one worker to having 10 staff inside three months.

Andrew: As a result of they had been leveling you up. What was it about them that impressed you a lot?

Erik: I believe there was they had been simply difficult me. Like, so we didn’t have a finance man. So we didn’t have order in finance and like, why don’t you could have this? And I didn’t have reply. After all, we should always have somebody who saved observe of finance. I shouldn’t sit there and do this.

I needed to get a finance man. And there was the identical factor with every kind of the like, why don’t you could have this and I didn’t have reply. So I received that. So it was extra like they challenged, they challenged the place we had been and the way we might get there. And I really need . . . I appeared as much as them lots and I actually wished to impress them. In order that turned my important drive behind these issues.

Andrew: Is Henrik a billionaire?

Erik: Not in {dollars}, however in Swedish kronas.

Andrew: Okay. I’ve seen loads of stuff about him as soon as I did a seek for him. Wow. Okay. All proper. I believe you guys are the corporate now’s it 350 individuals, and shortly after they purchased half of the enterprise. It appears to be like such as you guys went out and began shopping for different firms, proper?

Erik: Yeah, so 2013 turned the 12 months the place we actually tried to scale issues up and it turned horrible fricking nightmare of a 12 months. So I had no concept what I used to be doing. And all of the sudden I’m 24 on the time, and now I’ve 12 staff. I’ve for the primary time, far more prices than I’ve revenues and none of my projections of future revenues is making it . . . figuring out.

We’re simply shedding cash by the minute, and my checking account or our checking account is simply shrinking and shrinking and shrinking. After which we lastly managed to type some issues out and get the cash sort of up somewhat bit.

Andrew: What’s the factor you sorted out?

Erik: Really, I don’t suppose we did something particular. Simply the projections that I did was three, 4 months off, and issues really labored out. After which we received in an enormous authorized dispute with our landlord who sued us for 4 years [rent 00:47:36].

In order that’s a protracted aspect observe once more. Yeah, so principally, we’ve this workplace, and as soon as we had been in there, after which the man got here and knocked on our door and stated, “Hey, you possibly can’t use this as an as an workplace. It’s a restaurant.” All our agreements stated that this was an workplace. So we had been thrown out by the federal government, after which our landlord sued us for breaking the contract, which was clearly insane as a result of we had been pressured to by the federal government. However he was taking us to courtroom they usually turned out that he was a really, very highly effective man in a really small nation. And also you don’t actually wish to take that battle. Yeah. In order that turned, so we ended up settling outdoors of courtroom and that took loads of consideration. And it was, sure, chaos.

Andrew: Okay, so I’m beginning to see this. And ultimately you’re saying the chaos began clear up and also you ended up at a spot the place you would really get again on observe. Going public, why? Since you wanted to assist them get some liquidity or with a purpose to purchase different firms together with your inventory?

Erik: Okay, so the reality about this, which isn’t actually essentially the most official story, is Emil, my enterprise accomplice, he received utterly burned out in 2015, early 2015. I used to be in tears at any time when I spoke about enterprise outdoors of the workplace.

Andrew: Why?

Erik: I used to be in actually dangerous form. I used to be completely overworked from all this stress of every thing that we wished for the imaginative and prescient was striving in direction of. And we tried to promote the corporate for fairly a while. And lengthy earlier than the IPO, and cause being that the VC guys wished cash, and I wished out. And we didn’t handle to promote it. We discovered one purchaser who wished to purchase it for . . . put in a suggestion on 28 million Euros. However that they had the situation that I couldn’t promote my half, or a minimum of not most of it, and I needed to keep on for 2 years. And I used to be like, fuck that I’m not going to work for another person when and particularly not if I can’t promote my shares. So we didn’t take that call, the deal. So the primary cause on the time that we that I personally wished to go for the IPO was that I wanted to get out and I didn’t have a method of dealing with it.

Andrew: However you had been nonetheless CEO even afterwards, even after the IPO?

Erik: No, I employed an exterior CEO like 9 months earlier than the IPO.

Andrew: Was this Robert Anderson?

Erik: Sure.

Andrew: Okay. All proper. So I see you need to have the ability to get out, you introduced in a CEO, you had been in a position to go public. Speak about your accomplice, he went by some actually troublesome occasions after that IPO. What occurred?

Erik: Sure, really the 12 months earlier than the IPO. So, me and Emil, as I discussed, he’s stereotypical laptop genius, introverted sort of man. And I’m a business-minded man with the narcissistic strategy into large ego and big desires. And this two can conflict little bit once we’re chasing my desires, and I’m pushing him. So I pushed him too exhausting, and the VC guys pushed him too exhausting and he pushed himself too exhausting. That I put loads of the blame on this for me and he crashed.

He wasn’t himself. He didn’t . . . at some point he simply didn’t present as much as work. Turned out that they hadn’t actually slept for weeks and weeks. And he wasn’t himself. And this was early 2015. And it will take till I’d say this summer season, the previous now, the 2018 earlier than he actually recovered. And our relationship received an enormous hit on it and I’d say that’s barely recovering now.

Andrew: Why? How did it hit? What’s it that you simply keep in mind that you are feeling dangerous about trying again?

Erik: So he crashed, and I used to be in method worse form than I spotted. And I knew that when he crashed the proper resolution was to, “Okay, Erik. Let’s cease right here. Let’s choose him up. Let’s see how we will remedy this. Fuck the corporate, fuck, no matter is occurring. Simply centered on this.” And I didn’t. I left him there and I saved working. And realized in the present day that I really I wouldn’t have been in a position to elevate him up as a result of I might barely carry myself. Nevertheless it took me a very long time to appreciate that that I used to be in too dangerous form myself. And yeah, I believe that that is one thing that’s spoken too little about. I consider that that is the a part of just about each excessive success story, a technique or one other, is the sacrifices that’s been coming by it and generally it’s value it. Typically it’s not.

Andrew: You’re saying you sacrificed your friendship with him. It was a chance so that you can determine both I save him or the enterprise. You determined the enterprise. In case you’re sincere with your self, that was intentional. However in the event you knew again then that you’re making that call, you’ll have nonetheless made it since you wanted to.

Erik: To be sincere, I don’t suppose that I’d have been in a position to make one other resolution as a result of I believe that . . . so I used to be working at a method larger tempo that I might deal with myself.

Andrew: What does that imply? Had been you doing any medicine to maintain going? He should have been if he wasn’t sleeping for weeks.

Erik: No, I didn’t do any medicine. He did tons and tons of Purple Bull. I don’t suppose he did any medicine both. However I used to be method in over my head when it comes to work hours, when it comes to stress that I placed on myself, when it comes to objectives that I wished to realize. I all, each waking minute I used to be working a technique or one other, and if I wasn’t within the workplace, I used to be in my head desirous about this and this and that. We had been, as you talked about, we purchased tons of firms. I believe that I’ve been concerned in 20-25 mergers or one thing, mergers, acquisitions, one thing like that. In order that turned a bit and I, to be sincere, I had no concept what I used to be doing. I used to be studying on the job.

And when this occurred, we had achieved . . . yeah, the primary greater deal that we did was million Euros or one thing like that, which was early 2015.

Andrew: I’m smiling as a result of AskGamblers, the web site you talked about earlier, was a €15 million deal. And earlier than that, there was [Zero Corp 00:54:38] one other €15 million deal. There’s Bettingpro €14 million roughly so I might see that even one is lots however boy, you guys simply saved going even from there.

Erik: Sure. Yeah. So we did tons and tons of these issues. And yeah, I believe that if I’d have stopped, I’d in all probability have fallen. So consider it like in the event you’re going downhill on a motorbike or no matter, and also you’re going so quick that you simply’re not in management, after which your physique falls. And that’s what occurs. And there may be merely no method for me to cease with out crashing myself. I’d be capable to keep upright if I’m simply going, but when I’m attempting to interrupt or attempting to do the rest, I’m simply going to crash and I believe that’s the place I used to be when he crashed. I don’t suppose that I might cease as a result of if I did, I believe it will have caved.

Andrew: Okay.

And so he did, he crashed, you crashed. And he stayed with the corporate, although. He’s nonetheless with the corporate now.

Erik: He’s a shareholder.

Andrew: However he’s not within the firm day after day.

Erik: No, no, he hasn’t been . . .

Andrew: Oh, okay, he hasn’t up to date his LinkedIn profile, so I assumed he was nonetheless there after I appeared him up.

Erik: Okay. He hasn’t been since 2015.

Andrew: Have you ever guys talked in any respect?

Erik: Now we do. So the most important change for him occurred a few 12 months in the past. A bit extra, possibly 12 months and a half in the past. When he fell in love together with his candy 16 sort of girlfriend from [inaudible 00:56:25].

Andrew: I assume we name it the highschool sweetheart. Okay.

Erik: The highschool sweetheart. Yeah, sort of and he or she was just lately divorced and had two youngsters. So all of the sudden, he had a, I don’t know, two-year-old and five-year-old child or one thing like that to care for. And I believe that’s what gave him that means and goal. Somebody to kick him away from bed. Somebody who didn’t care that he had boatloads of cash. They simply wished their meatballs for lunch or no matter it’s.

And that received him again on observe. So I believe that children, I consider these youngsters have been essentially the most significant factor. And yeah, now he’s . . .

Andrew: So he reached out to you otherwise you reached out to him?

Erik: I saved reaching out to him recurrently for these years and . . .

Andrew: And he lastly was keen and he was in place to speak to you once more.

Erik: Yeah. I actually in a position to pay money for him. He moved again to Sweden. So he’s been residing in our previous hometown. So sooner or later, I went to his home, as a result of he didn’t choose up the cellphone.

Andrew: You informed our producer after the IPO, you had been preventing together with your girlfriend about issues we owned. What do you imply by issues we personal? What would lead you to a struggle together with your girlfriend?

Erik: I’m unsure what she is referring to there. Your producer . . .

Andrew: Okay. Euphoric feeling from the IPO lasted for one week. Basically we instantly afterwards I felt the identical as I had achieved earlier than. All of the dopamine was gone, And now it was again preventing with my girlfriend.

Erik: Okay, so I do know. Okay, yeah. So principally, we did the IPO and I made extra money than I’ll spend in my lifetime, and that turned an enormous aid that I had succeeded. I had survived. And there’s a image of me simply screaming and it’s not a scream of pleasure. It’s a scream of aid. I’m like white in my face and I seem like I’m a ghost or one thing. So, and clearly at the moment I used to be stuffed up dopamine and serotonin and no matter all of the phrases are for them, and I used to be so comfortable. So there have been so many issues that got here from that and that feeling lasted for, I don’t know, two weeks, one thing like that. And after that issues received again to regular. And my imaginative and prescient of reaching all these objectives in some way was that from now our life goes to be Sweet Land. I imply, every thing goes to be superb. I’ve reached all these objectives I’ve been struggling for since without end.

However life didn’t magically change. It received again to regular and I received a chilly. And apparently wealthy individuals get colds as properly and I received sick and I saved preventing. Effectively, Me and my girlfriend we had been struggling lots. She was really working within the enterprise as properly. And she or he had been below far more stress than I spotted. And I had been as properly, and we had all this issues that we didn’t have an answer to, really primarily intercourse issues which is an entire different story.

Andrew: And I’m going to pause on the intercourse issues as a result of this is a matter. You’ve expressed this to our . . . I like Arie. We’re so like . . . I like that she doesn’t simply search for the enterprise half, that she is aware of that is necessary to speak about that. What occurred to your intercourse life?

Erik: Okay, so we touched upon earlier on this episode that I received loads of my validation from girls, and my earliest recollections are about . . .

Andrew: Intercourse with girls.

Erik: . . . being good with girls.

Andrew: How previous had been you whenever you first had intercourse?

Erik: Fifteen.

Andrew: Fifteen. Okay, with this girlfriend that you simply talked about?

Erik: Really one other girlfriend, however that’s much less necessary.

Andrew: Wow. Okay. All proper. And so, yeah. So, yeah, you bought loads of validation even whenever you couldn’t get it anyplace out of your relationships.

Erik: I received loads of my validation from girls all my life, so myself value when it wasn’t cash as a youngster, it was girls a technique or one other. And I’ve a really excessive intercourse drive. And Johanna my fiancée is much more regular, which was an enormous wrestle, particularly when she was utterly burned out from enterprise. I used to be utterly burned out from enterprise and properly then intercourse didn’t work in any respect, which I consider is a quite common factor for . . .

Andrew: It is sensible.

Erik: . . . individuals. Yeah, and I consider that entrepreneurs are literally actually shitty within the bed room. And in the event you’re . . . I base that on that a few of the key abilities of being entrepreneur is being good at negotiating. And it’s being good at fixing issues, and another stuff, however let’s deal with these two. In case you’re a negotiator that’s principally getting another person to do what you need them to do, ideally with out them even realizing that it’s what you wish to do. It’s an excellent talent in enterprise. It’s a very shitty talent to have in a relationship since you . . .

Andrew: Why?

Erik: As a result of it’s manipulation. So, if I can get her to do what I would like her to do, she’s really going to sidestep what she desires to do for me, with out even understanding that that’s what she doing. So she’s not being true to herself. She is sort of simply eager to provide you with a method of doing issues for me. Which is a very shitty spot to be in if you wish to have good intercourse, for instance, as a result of she’s going to do issues that may not be for her with out even realizing . . .

Andrew: However doesn’t make good intercourse for you simply not good for her?

Erik: Yeah, however that’s the short-term factor. So when you have good . . .

Andrew: Since you’re saying if it’s nice for you however not for her, it doesn’t find yourself being good for both of you long-term?

Erik: Precisely. Precisely. So if, let’s say you had been having intercourse 5 occasions, and every time it’s good for me and never for her, do you suppose there’s going to be a sixth time? Or do you . . .

Andrew: Acquired it. however what about what you stated earlier than, which is she’s pondering that that is what she desires? And so your manipulation makes her really feel like that is what she wished all alongside. So that you’re getting what you need. She thinks she’s getting what she desires.

Erik: Yeah, so I believe that’s her mind thinks that however not her physique, and you may’t trick your physique.

Andrew: Proper, proper. Okay. All proper. And so you’re attending to have intercourse lots?

Erik: Yeah, so that is simply the place I’m coming from. In order that’s sort of negotiation abilities. So in the event you’re good entrepreneur, you’re negotiator and it’s really implies that you’re a fairly shitty boyfriend. And I undoubtedly was. And it’s the identical factor in the event you’re entrepreneur, you’re fixing issues. And fixing issues means the issues is outdoors of me. Which clearly implies that I’m fixing her, so I’m sort of entering into no matter she . . . An entrepreneur isn’t the issue. The issue is outdoors of the entrepreneur.

So I’m attempting to repair all of the issues together with her or fixing her like she is the factor that’s mistaken. And that’s additionally actually shitty power to return from like, “Yeah, that is your fault sort of. I’m going to repair you.” So I did every kind of silly errors when it comes to all of these issues, as a substitute of ever like trying within the mirror and saying like, okay, Erik, possibly it is best to look into this and see the place issues are with your self. So I believe that entrepreneurs generally have these two issues in widespread and loads of different issues that really makes us worse companions as a substitute of like, okay, let’s see, can I pay attention? Reasonably than attempting to repair. Can I perceive? Can I . . .

Andrew: How dangerous did issues get earlier than you understand that you might want to enhance?

Erik: We really broke up. we went to {couples} remedy for some time. It didn’t actually assist. We had been really ended up breaking apart a bit after the IPO, spending fairly a while aside, realizing that, fuck, I actually don’t wish to be with out her. And the one wrestle was really intercourse. All the things else was good, however that was a really large a part of every thing. That may be a very large a part of each relationship, I’d guess. So, we received again collectively in 2017, yeah, summer season 2017. And since then, I actually tried to grasp this stuff and realizing that okay, many of the issues had been me, not her, me attempting to vary issues, me attempting to perform issues, me turning . . . and one other factor with entrepreneurs, we’re very aim oriented like, that is what I’m going to perform. It’s additionally a very shitty factor to have within the bed room.

It’s like there isn’t a end line, there isn’t a aim, that’s the us to actually . . . intercourse it’s a dance. There isn’t purported to be . . .

Andrew: A aim. You don’t imply even the orgasm. You imply attempting to get her to do one thing that validated that you simply’re necessary sufficient that she would do it?

Erik: Yeah, which it sounds good . . . So principally, I used to be wired and I’m nonetheless I’m wired in that method a technique or one other that I get my validation from . . . a part of my validation comes from intercourse. So if she doesn’t wish to have intercourse, I hear that as there’s something mistaken with me and I really feel dangerous about it, and it comes out in my temperament, my emotions, my no matter and it turns into projecting loads of shit [one way 01:05:55]. So all of those years turns into damaging spirals. And doesn’t repair something.

Andrew: What about this? So one of many issues that I discovered was after I was relationship, it was simpler for me to get that sort of a repair as a result of then I might simply maintain going from woman to woman. We had been each actually comfortable after which we moved on, and there was no alternative to see that we weren’t match or that I suck indirectly. Did that . . .

Erik: Yeah.

Andrew: You don’t go to that. You appear to be a extra of a monogamist, or extra like, I don’t know, monogamous or not, however you want long-term relationships.

Erik: Okay, so I’ve been with Johanna for 9 years, and I used to be . . . properly, I wasn’t teenager, let’s put it that method. So I tousled and I harm girls lots by doing that I harm myself lots, and which have turned me into monogamous. Or I believe that I’m extra of a polyamorous man, however I’m in a monogamous relationship, which can also be very tough. So I’ve a lot love in me and I like so many individuals, and I’m very deep into connection, particularly with girls. I dance lots. I like this.

Andrew: And intercourse provides you deeper connection as a result of somebody’s letting you into part of their lives that they don’t let everybody in?

Erik: Undecided concerning the letting anybody within the a part of their . . . however it’s I believe that it’s like a dance. It’s a deep connection factor that . . .

Andrew: Does it trouble you that a few of your pals are polyamorous however you’re not?

Erik: Sure.

Andrew: It does, particularly like individuals who you see you having conversations, like they’re not any higher than you. They simply occurred to be with somebody who’s permitting it.

Erik: Sure.

Andrew: And the way do you cope with that?

Erik: Effectively, I actually love Johanna. I actually wish to dwell my life together with her. And I consider that the one factor that sort of stops a polyamorous relationship is it’s concern. I believe that everybody in a relationship desires their accomplice to be comfortable it doesn’t matter what. It’s like the top consequence. No matter she desires to do, no matter makes her makes her comfortable, I’d need her to do in idea. If what she desires to do is fuck a bunch of fellows, that will scare the shit out of me. So in idea, I nonetheless wish to, however the concern takes over.

Andrew: So that you negotiated with your self and realized, what, I’m keen to just accept this higher deal, which isn’t to scare the shit out of me by having her be with different individuals, not screw up my relationship together with her by me being with different individuals. I’m giving up that a part of myself to be together with her.

Erik: For now, that’s the place I’m. I really I’d be keen to let her be with different individuals if that’s what she wished, and get to some extent the place we’re extra open with one another.

Andrew: However you are feeling somewhat bit like she’s being egocentric. She’s being egocentric to not acknowledge that that is what you need and provide you with this a part of your self and allow you to totally be you. You’re a man of extraordinary talents, extraordinary calls for. The rationale you push your self so exhausting is since you couldn’t cope with only a small little web site that produce 1000 a month, the place you needed to flip off the warmth each time you’re achieved having a shower. That she just isn’t recognizing this in you and giving you a chance to be that individual. As a lot as you like her, you want that she was sufficiently big to let you could have that.

Erik: Okay, so there’s two sides of this. One aspect of me is de facto fucking pissed off, that thinks that she is so egocentric and is . . . Yeah, a part of me is de facto, actually offended together with her. One other a part of me could be very, very understanding. And I spotted that that is all about concern. There’s a lot concern round this, and it makes full sense as a result of it’s scary as fuck. And we’re so introduced up with that that is mistaken. This isn’t how relationships work, and it scares the shit out of me too.

So a much bigger a part of me is knowing, and I’m unsure how these two issues will play out. I imply, we’re younger. We’ll see the place issues prove. However we’re repeatedly speaking about this subject in a technique or one other and touching upon it and we’re rising lots collectively, and I do not know the place issues will find yourself. And regardless if it will ever flip right into a polyamorous relationship or not, I consider that it’s the perfect deal to be together with her as a result of I’m head over heels in love together with her.

Andrew: As a result of what? What’s it that makes me love her a lot?

Erik: It’s a wonderful query. I ought to inform her extra typically. So she has loads of superb qualities. First one being that she is so loving and caring. She makes me really feel secure it doesn’t matter what. She all the time listens to me. She’s a really devoted fan of every thing that I do on a regular basis and adores me and provides me loads of validation in no matter method she presumably can. She’s humorous. She’s sensible. She’s going to be essentially the most superb mom sometime. She shares my humor. She shares my desires and objectives for all times. And yeah, she retains me sane, so just about every thing is superb about her.

Andrew: She’s a yoga trainer now licensed, proper?

Erik: Yeah.

Andrew: Are you that individual now too, somebody who’s open to yoga? Otherwise you nonetheless so pushed that you simply acknowledge a minimum of she’s received extra of a Zen angle on the world and also you need that to rub off on you and chill you out?

Principally, I’m asking are you extra like her now? Or are you continue to you however you need her calm and peaceable presence to vary you or simply chill you out a bit?

Erik: Instantly there’s a few issues that actually modified throughout, since we had been aside. And a few of them is that she has gotten nearer to the place I’m, and I’ve gotten nearer to the place she is. So I sort of uncared for her non secular Zen facet for the primary seven years of our relationship. And she or he was achieved lots much less within the sexual features and whatnot and different issues that I’m all in favour of.

And in the present day, I’m much more into her stuff and he or she’s much more into my stuff. And so I’m really far more into meditations. I wrestle with yoga. I’m all in favour of another stuff. I’d be capable to do it in the event that they move on our silent retreat and simply sit there for 10 days for instance.

Andrew: Me too. I might do this however not a 60 minute yoga session.

Erik: I don’t thoughts a 60 minute yoga session, however I’m not keen about it. She is, so I go away that to her. We’re getting [inaudible 01:12:50].

Andrew: And we’re getting somewhat off subject. I’ve received to say that as I used to be searching for pictures of you and her to get a way of what you guys are like collectively, I got here throughout a photograph of you the day you went public. I received to inform you understanding what I do know now, I nonetheless don’t see an oz. of like hesitation, disappointment, wrestle in you. The smile simply appears to be like so carefree. It’s like okay, now I might take a deep breath and possibly in reality, you probably did get to take a deep breath and your accomplice received to take a deep breath, and also you needed to then return to the stress, however boy you guys look so comfortable at that second. It’s simply so good to see the behind the scenes on that.

All proper, so you purchased a site, for $900,00Zero largely due to one thing known as . . . What was it? I can’t discover it, or one thing, IT for Kids. Sure, that’s what it was, my reminiscence’s proper. Inform me about how Emil launched you to IT for Kids? Why that result in, and what are we doing with this enterprise that you simply’re making a gift of all the cash from, all of the revenue from?

Erik: Okay, so after the IPO, these emotions of this entire the push of pleasure left me a few weeks in, and it ended me . . . properly, didn’t finish me. It left me feeling empty and me and Johanna, we break up up. I didn’t know what to do with something and what I believed I’d really feel with all this cash and success didn’t occur.

And I began trying into charity and numerous issues and see if I might discover that means there. And I went to Ghana to go to this IT for Kids. They wanted cash to construct a college constructing. I believe it was $15,00Zero or one thing like that, that I donated to, for them to finish that constructing. And I went there. And I got here to this village known as Busua in south of Ghana, and I visited this college yard and on the right-hand aspect had been these grey buildings with metal bars for the home windows, and on the left aspect was this splash of colours. It was yellow, inexperienced, and purple. That was the college constructing that IT for Kids had constructed. And it simply felt proper to be part of that.

After which the category began within the afternoon. And our class is about educating youngsters computer systems, and it’s voluntary, to allow them to come in the event that they wish to. I didn’t suppose many individuals would come. I imply, simply take into consideration that first. Would you could have gone to a category that was voluntary after college hours? Or would you could have achieved one thing else? I’d have achieved one thing else after I was 10, for certain.

However there was a line of children outdoors of our classroom with hundred youngsters, and we solely had 70 locations, 70 spots to take a seat up and belief me it was filled with 70 individuals in there. So we needed to deny youngsters who wished to be taught, who wished to be there outdoors of faculty hours. And that was simply whoa, bizarre feeling [present 01:15:56].

The principle factor occurred later that day When the youngsters had left, and I begin speaking to Torsten who’s the primary man there within the challenge. And he informed me that the opposite academics might borrow our college constructing at any time when they wished. Nevertheless it was on one situation, it was in our college constructing you by no means hit the youngsters.

And that was like, whoa, to me, it’s so apparent that it is best to by no means hit the youngsters. However in right here, it wasn’t apparent. Within the grey buildings, the youngsters received hit. I imply, take into consideration going to highschool as a child, having to be terrified.

Andrew: Yeah.

Erik: And in our college constructing then, the youngsters had been secure. The youngsters, they lined as much as be there outdoors of faculty hours. They beloved to be there. And to me that simply felt proper. I used to be like, “Okay, that is one thing I actually wish to do. That is one thing I wish to be part of.”

Andrew: what? I received to inform you, I noticed you write one thing about in that constructing, that children don’t get hit. I believed you had been like, having a tough time with English and it didn’t hit me, it didn’t happen to me that you simply meant, actually on this one constructing, youngsters don’t get hit. The opposite buildings, the youngsters do actually get hit.

Erik: Yeah. In order that, I imply, I spotted that I received’t . . . properly, I in all probability knew that earlier than, however I would like the world to be a secure place. And I wish to be part of that in no matter method I can. In order that turned my first highly effective expertise with charity or what it might probably imply and what can occur with, what cash can be utilized for when it’s not squandered on champagne or costly crap you don’t have to impress different individuals, however you possibly can really do one thing significant with it.

In order that turned the primary a part of So I wished to . . . I contain myself in loads of totally different charities after this, however it by no means actually felt proper. I don’t know a lot about working a college in Ghana. I don’t know a lot about trafficking in India, or an orphanage in Uganda. So I requested myself, “What do I do know?” And I spotted that I do know enterprise, I’m good at enterprise, I get pleasure from enterprise. So I wished to provide you with the perfect methods of doing enterprise, after which donating all income to charity. And that’s what

Andrew: And this now you beginning any enterprise that is sensible in the event you’re within the exploratory interval to determine what enterprise does make sense. And as you make revenue from it, you’re going to be giving it away.

Erik: Sure, sure, precisely. And it’s additionally the . . . so Catena was constructed to be offered from my perspective in essence. I pushed myself method too exhausting. I virtually . . . Effectively, my good friend, my enterprise accomplice, crashed. My girlfriend received burned out. My relationship received ruined. My private well being was undoubtedly endangered. And it turned an enormous monetary success in a really quick time, however the private price was large. And I hated it at a big extent. And now I wish to provide you with a method is, how can I like this? How can I do that for 50 years and having fun with the method? As a result of if I can get to a sure aim in 4 years by pushing myself far too exhausting, what can I do in 50 by not pushing myself too exhausting, however really having fun with the method? In all probability much more.

So now Nice goes to be totally distant group, the place everyone seems to be working with . . . based mostly on belief and full flexibility. We wish to be ridiculously clear. So we really wish to share all salaries and all of this stuff. We publish all our conferences . . . properly, not all of them, loads of our conferences on YouTube, simply from video recording, so anybody can see what’s happening.

And all of those various things that we’re principally taking part in round with, we wish to be very susceptible and sincere with issues. So we begin every of our assembly begins with a check-in course of, the place individuals spend between 30 seconds and two minutes simply telling them about the place are they emotionally proper now. So we all know the way to work together with one another. And sure, a few weeks again I used to be in a very dangerous place, and I’ve had a very robust weekend with Johanna. And I began crying throughout that course of on our Monday assembly, and we really determined to postpone all plans and simply discuss these issues as a result of it meant extra. And I believe that if there might be such an surroundings in an workplace or in an organization, there’s a lot to win from it in the long run.

Andrew: The Emil that you simply’re engaged on with at this enterprise, is it a special Emil?

Erik: Sure, it’s a special Emil.

Andrew: Okay. And these, what are the calls that you simply guys revealed? I don’t know in the event you nonetheless do, however you had been publishing requires some time on YouTube. Yeah, I assume you continue to do.

Erik: Yeah. So in the meanwhile, we’re doing three calls every week that we publish on YouTube. One is . . .

Andrew: Inside or with who?

Erik: Yeah, inside. So we’re presently six individuals and we’re unfold over roughly six time zones. So we do all our calls on Zoom. And we’ve a weekly name each Friday based mostly on what we’re doing or comparable issues about group and we simply revealed that for whoever desires to see the place we discuss our OKRs, our objectives. Our targets, our salaries, our no matter is necessary. After which we really we do a podcast each week. So we’re recording that one. And we do a podcast . . .

Andrew: Turning into Nice, for anybody who desires to listen to it. Tremendous entrepreneur, a multi-millionaire, and tantric . . . oh, you’re tantric. Actually? Tantric intercourse?

Erik: Sure.

Andrew: Is it good? Does it work?

Erik: I undoubtedly suppose it really works. Yeah, it undoubtedly works.

Andrew: And tantric newbie Erik Bergman are exploring the concept of constructing group with private well being and progress in focus. Erik’s colleague and good friend podcast host, Emil challenges Erik’s . . . he challenges Erik’s challenges. Turning into Nice is a podcast hosted by the charity initiative, That’s what it’s about and the weekly calls. I like how is it Frederick, who I assume is a part of your group. He’s in your weekly Zoom. He’s laying in mattress in his undershirt. I don’t know if he’s sporting pants or what, however you’ll publish it on YouTube as a result of that’s what occurred on March 15.

Erik: Yeah, man, I believe that, to me, this can be a large a part of what I wish to do is I wish to encourage transparency and vulnerability. I wish to be on a podcast and discuss my crappy intercourse scenario. And my challenges with that. And I wish to share no matter struggles comes with constructing an organization a technique or one other, as a result of I consider that the world would profit from it.

Andrew: Do you could have somebody in your group whose identify is Spirit?

Erik: Sure. So sure, the very fact his identify is Spirit.

Andrew: He’s in Sweden. Okay. That is what we’re speaking about. And also you don’t know but what you’re promoting or are you aware?

Erik: Sure, I imply, it’s the business aspect of this enterprise goes to be similar to what I’ve achieved earlier than . . .

Andrew: So it’s advertising and marketing or playing?

Erik: Internet online affiliate marketing, it’s going to start out with playing, as a result of that’s what I do know. I want it will have been one thing else. However I really feel the rationale we’re going into playing is a number of. One in all them is that I really feel a accountability for no matter harm I’ve triggered with my engagement in charity. Effectively, it’s not in charity, with playing. So if I’m going into playing in the present day, and I can really signify one thing else in playing, I consider I can do an enormous distinction for a way the playing trade appears to be like and what it’s. So one of many podcast episodes we discuss that I’m in all probability accountable for somebody committing suicide, as a result of I’ve been concerned in so many playing transactions that considered one of them has in all probability led to that.

And nobody takes this dialogue. So if I’m representing this trade, and I’m doing this, I consider that I can really change this trade from the within, one thing that I’d not be capable to do if I stepped some place else. So it will be lots simpler for me to change into a hero or no matter if I made a decision to do one thing utterly totally different. And since I’m going to provide away all of the income, there’s no upside for me to do playing, however I really feel a accountability of doing what I can to vary this trade as a result of I believe that I’ve been a part of doing loads of hurt in it.

Andrew: I get it. And so that you’re going to make use of it like Robin Hood to get to the place you need.

Erik: Precisely. So, principally, the cash that will be generated from advertising and marketing inside on line casino in any other case would very possible be reinvested within the on line casino trade. Now elements of it is going to be donated to charity as a substitute and never construct the on line casino trade extra, however slightly assist individuals in want.

Andrew: Is Spirit Rosenberg like a Hassidic Jew? Is he Muslim? Or is he Christian? I can’t inform or is it not one of the above?

Erik: I believe he’s an atheist, really.

Andrew: Atheist.

Erik: Yeah.

Andrew: And I don’t know in the event you guys nonetheless have it up however used to have a group web page for every individual and he’s saying, “If God created anybody with a goal, my goal in life can be to pay attention. I’ve all the time had a knack for listening and understanding others. My dad by no means actually went to church and but he all the time appeared to be a preacher within the house particularly in the lounge,” and he’s speaking lots about God lots on his web page. Atheist you suppose?

Erik: I’m unsure what he’s. Yeah, [inaudible 01:26:11].

Andrew: Yeah, possibly he was a Hassidic Jew or a Muslim is due to the top factor that he had on in considered one of your group conferences which frankly works actually nice.

Erik: That group assembly was . . . so one of many group member’s identify is Derek. And he received married two weeks again. Yeah, two weeks again. And we did a video recording the place we celebrated him and sang to him to start with of our name, so Derek wasn’t within the name. And Spirit performed the position as a priest, in order that’s why he’s dressed up as a priest. So we began the decision by saying, okay, we’re right here to have a good time the attractive wedding ceremony of vanilla and chocolate. No, no, Vanessa and Derek, sorry. And does anybody have any objections? Blah, blah, blah. After which all of us gave our objections to the marriage. So and he simply saved the outfit on.

Andrew: Acquired it. All proper, does it trouble you that solely 17 individuals watch that one weekly assembly. It’s on YouTube. You don’t put it up for sale. However as somebody who’s aggressive, who desires to see your numbers go up, does it make you are feeling like, “Oh man, come on. Solely 15, solely 19 individuals, this frustrates me. I’m by no means going to do it once more”?

Erik: Sure. So as soon as once more we’ve this [project meeting 01:27:23]. We have now considered one of them, which is that this very aggressive man that hates that this isn’t one thing that has taken off presently. And my as soon as once more narcissistic ego perspective, and this actually desires individuals to observe this and care about this. On the identical time, I’ve this dreamer inside me who realized that, “Okay, we’ve not discovered a great way of doing this.” As of in the present day, many of the calls are usually not any leisure worth. They’re by no means going to be a excessive leisure worth. So what we should be good at is selecting out the golden nuggets of every a part of that is, and discovering the [inaudible 01:28:03] to try this. As a result of if we’re doing video calls which can be one hour or two hours, they usually’re really solely related to us in its full size, clearly individuals are not going to care about it if there’s 5 minutes of high quality in every considered one of these.

So we should be good at selecting out these issues, after which being in the long term individuals will like what . . . there will likely be an impact of individuals really participating on this. We have now a number of folks that watch each episode on a regular basis, which is loads of hours each week. And people are only a few however in the long term, I believe that snowball will develop.

Andrew: All proper, this has been one of many longest conversations I’ve ever recorded. We’ve been speaking together with the dialog earlier than we formally began for an hour and 40 minutes. I’m wondering how individuals really feel about it going this lengthy. Guys, in the event you made it this far, please let me know. Simply inform my entire group, [email protected] I would like us all to listen to from you guys. I do know I like this. I like how this went. For you, what time is it proper now in Malta?

Erik: 1:11.

Andrew: 1:11. Was it value your whereas to remain as much as 1:11 to have this dialog with me? It’s completely fantastic to say, what, possibly [not 01:29:13].

Erik: I’m comfortable look ahead to two extra hours. I’m having loads of enjoyable.

Andrew: And solely factor you’re on proper now’s caffeine from espresso?

Erik: Sure, and the fervour of life.

Andrew: I can see that. All proper, for anybody who desires to go test you out, I believe the perfect place for them to go see you might be, however there’s nothing on

Erik: In case you go to, you will discover the hyperlinks to our podcasts and my every thing from Instagram to every thing else. And there will likely be loads of different issues happening.

Andrew: I see it.

Erik: You’ll discover the hyperlinks to all of the YouTube issues as properly. And I’d like so as to add yet another factor as a result of earlier than we finish this as properly, and it’s we . . . one of many the explanation why we’re doing . . . why I consider in podcasts, why I wish to do that totally clear, and wish to do this stuff is that I wish to create large attain for recruitment and discovering superior individuals who desires to do one thing very totally different.

And proper now I wish to discover a CEO or a CPO not fairly outlined what that has, who will really be in control of constructing this. And that’s ideally . . . so we would be the excellent match for somebody who has already been a part of an enormous journey, and possibly did an exit themselves or possibly was part of the challenge as an worker, and desires to do one thing once more, however with much more that means which have a really excessive emotional intelligence and consider in vulnerability and transparency in this stuff, and desires to be part of a lifelong journey slightly than beginning over and take lengthy strategic and operational choices in a method that so far as I do know, no firm has achieved earlier than.

And yeah, that’s beginning with a $900,00Zero area identify at And in the long term, my perception is that it’ll end in billions of {dollars} in donations over the following many years.

Andrew: And your imaginative and prescient as somebody who’s been part of a group, a frontrunner of or near management of a group that it’s considered one of these like hustler sort firms that you simply like, the individuals who would go to one thing like I don’t know if , Child Bathwater the place they’re producing income closely. They know what it takes. They’re not essentially like enterprise backed, however they know what it takes to do it. And now they need one thing significant to use those self same abilities in direction of one thing that has large that means they usually’re keen to sacrifice large private income with a purpose to have large impression on the world.

Erik: Yeah, they don’t essentially have to sacrifice large private . . . Do large private sacrifices in the event that they don’t wish to. If there’s somebody who has achieved an exit themselves they usually don’t want cash, in the event that they’re in my scenario, that will be an ideal candidate. In the event that they’re not however they’re nonetheless actually good and actually keen about this, I imply everybody else however me earns salaries. It’s simply me who doesn’t. In order that’s not a deal breaker in any method.

It’s sure, somebody is pushed by this who desires to construct the large distant group and consider in this stuff, and its very product oriented or ideally the love little one between Elon Musk and Invoice Gates. So it’s a tech genius, sort of what . . . not tech genius. Enthusiastic about tech as a result of I’ve by no means been. So I believe that we might be an ideal match for one another. And yeah, I believe that I might actually add worth to somebody like that and this dream. And we really recorded the ninth episode of the podcast Turning into Nice about this position. So it’s not even dwell but, however I assume it is going to be dwell when this episode goes dwell . . .

Andrew: All proper, that’s a very good place for us to finish it then. Anybody who’s listening to this now’s actually purchased into this imaginative and prescient and a minimum of your story, and in the event that they wish to comply with up now that this episode is over, they need to go try Turning into Nice, that’s the identify of the podcast in no matter app they’re listening to?

Erik: Sure.

Andrew: All proper, there you go. Turning into Nice, go look it up. There a number of episodes in there proper now. By the point you hear this, you’ll hear the episode that we simply talked about. I believe that’s an incredible place to ship people who find themselves . I wish to thank the 2 sponsors who made this interview occur. The primary will host your web site proper, it’s known as HostGator, test them out a Let me say it slower, I’m wondering if anybody really can hear me say it clearly sufficient to go there.

And second in the event you’re like Erik and also you hate your electronic mail advertising and marketing firm, change, degree up. Go to And I’m actually grateful to each of my sponsors for . . . I do know there’s loads of firms who hate it after I get into intercourse dialog. They don’t prefer it after I discuss like tantric. They’d have beloved for me to move it on. I believe ActiveCampaign simply and HostGator, they simply sort of belief me. Similar factor with a few of my different ones like Toptal. I believe that’s a very good match. Erik, thanks for doing this.

Guys, all of you, thanks for listening in, and this experiment of me recording myself right here on this factor labored okay. The audio recorder nonetheless takes double A batteries, and it died or it was near dying so I ended it. I’m going to go to the shop and purchase batteries. I don’t like that it makes use of actual batteries. In the meantime, the iPhone, we’ve digital camera gear that actually prices 1000’s of {dollars} that I take out, can’t document for greater than half an hour. I didn’t know this was this was normal limitation.

This iPhone with this little mic on high recorded us for one hour 42 minutes no drawback, no problem in 4k. In order that experiment was attention-grabbing. I’m now able to go to Malta, able to go to Chile which is my . . . Chile excuse me not Chile. Chile Santiago, Chile, the place I’m going to document interviews with entrepreneurs and everywhere in the world as I run marathons on each continent in a single 12 months. And document interviews with entrepreneurs world wide as I do. These are fixed little exams that I do. I wish to get to know individuals in individual, Erik. Erik, I’m glad I received to know you this manner. I hope I get to see you in individual. Thanks for being right here. Bye, everybody.

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